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	<title>Comments on: Pope John Paul II meditating on the Tarot?</title>
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		<title>By: Delameilleure Fred</title>
		<link>http://theosophist.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/pope-john-paul-ii-meditating-on-the-tarot/comment-page-3/#comment-540</link>
		<dc:creator>Delameilleure Fred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 09:06:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Whaww! I would like to contact you  Doug Hein...How?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whaww! I would like to contact you  Doug Hein&#8230;How?</p>
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		<title>By: Govert</title>
		<link>http://theosophist.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/pope-john-paul-ii-meditating-on-the-tarot/comment-page-3/#comment-527</link>
		<dc:creator>Govert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 15:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>August 1, 2009, e-mail from Douglas Hein:

Greetings!


I came across an article that seems to have originated with your website, entitled: &quot;Pope John Paul II Meditating of the Tarot?&quot; It prompted the following thoughts for your consideration. 


So, why would a Catholic, and especially a Pope, be reading Tomberg&#039;s &quot;Meditations?&quot; I am Roman Catholic and Esoteric. Most Catholics who know me would be impressed with my observation of the Catholic Faith. Many of the same would be confused by my inner meditations, speculations and beliefs. I have read Tomberg&#039;s &quot;Meditations&quot; and it articulates well much of my own thinking; it was like coming home. Regarding Pope John Paul II, I was aware of the photo of Tomberg&#039;s book sitting on the Popes desk and the gift of this book to him from Cardinal Balthasar, who penned its forward. A few musings ... The name &quot;John Paul&quot; was first taken by John Paul I in 1978. He said it was in honor of his two predecessors, John XXIII and Paul VI. This was the first time in papal history that a pope had taken a double name, and the first time a pope had officially appended the designation &quot;the first&quot; to the regnal name. What is it&#039;s true significance? 


The &quot;Church of John&quot; has always been a cipher for the &quot;secret church&quot; or esoteric stream of Christianity. &quot;Paul&quot; has traditionally been code for the exoteric church. Here, in this double name, we have John and Paul re-uniting. Could this have been a deliberate decision based on an esoteric understanding that it was the proper time to bring the two streams back together? Interestingly, John Paul I was pope for 33 days and then died. 33 - the number of years of Jesus&#039; life. 33 - the number signifying the culmination and integration of the 32 Paths of Wisdom of the Tree of Life into a coherent whole. The 32 paths of wisdom = the 22 paths of the Tree of Life + the 10 Sefirot. The 22 paths of the Tree of Life = the 22 Arcana of the Tarot. (And of course, we have the 32 degrees of Scottish Freemasonry, with a 33rd degree bestowed on the select few.) Anyway, John Paul II takes up the mantle by assuming the same double name. Deliberate? Of course, but esoteric? Perhaps. Without going to find the references, Pope John Paul II, in his youth, was involved in a theatre troupe working though the anthroposophical mystery plays of Rudolf Steiner. This was just prior to the young Wojtyła being hit by a truck and encountering Christ in a way that caused him to enter the Catholic priesthood. Much could be written on certain aspects of Pope JP II&#039;s theology that reflect these anthroposophical themes. In any case, there is an early connection to the very stream of esoterica in which Tomberg was steeped. So, years later, we see the aged Pope with a copy of the original German two-volume copy of Tomberg&#039;s opus. Hmmm. Beyond the notice of most, and only meaningful to those who recognize the sign. Another tangential, yet interesting, clue that a hermetic stream has existed within the exoteric shell of Roman Catholicism is the Seal of the Jesuit Order, and the Order&#039;s abbreviated (esoteric) motto, &quot;Magis,&quot; taken from the official (exoteric) motto, &quot;Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam.&quot; Magis ... ahh, the connotations! More! Master. Teacher. Magistrate. Magic. Magis. The seal, unveiled in all its glory, stands naked and revealed by the great Jesuit polymath (and father of Egyptology), Athanasius Kircher, in his work, &quot;Oedipus Aegyptiacus,&quot; or &quot;Son of Egypt.&quot; You can see an image of what I call the unveiled version herein. There is a veritable esoteric feast contained therein. Draw your own conclusions. These are just a very few thought on how and why Tomberg&#039;s work would up on John Paul II&#039;s desk. Hope you have enjoyed.


Regards,
Doug Hein, Ordo Unim


The official Jesuit Seal, and the very intriguing Kircher version!
[See images &lt;a href=&quot;http://alpheus.org/html/source_materials/esoteric_history/IHS-Kirchner.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>August 1, 2009, e-mail from Douglas Hein:</p>
<p>Greetings!</p>
<p>I came across an article that seems to have originated with your website, entitled: &#8220;Pope John Paul II Meditating of the Tarot?&#8221; It prompted the following thoughts for your consideration. </p>
<p>So, why would a Catholic, and especially a Pope, be reading Tomberg&#8217;s &#8220;Meditations?&#8221; I am Roman Catholic and Esoteric. Most Catholics who know me would be impressed with my observation of the Catholic Faith. Many of the same would be confused by my inner meditations, speculations and beliefs. I have read Tomberg&#8217;s &#8220;Meditations&#8221; and it articulates well much of my own thinking; it was like coming home. Regarding Pope John Paul II, I was aware of the photo of Tomberg&#8217;s book sitting on the Popes desk and the gift of this book to him from Cardinal Balthasar, who penned its forward. A few musings &#8230; The name &#8220;John Paul&#8221; was first taken by John Paul I in 1978. He said it was in honor of his two predecessors, John XXIII and Paul VI. This was the first time in papal history that a pope had taken a double name, and the first time a pope had officially appended the designation &#8220;the first&#8221; to the regnal name. What is it&#8217;s true significance? </p>
<p>The &#8220;Church of John&#8221; has always been a cipher for the &#8220;secret church&#8221; or esoteric stream of Christianity. &#8220;Paul&#8221; has traditionally been code for the exoteric church. Here, in this double name, we have John and Paul re-uniting. Could this have been a deliberate decision based on an esoteric understanding that it was the proper time to bring the two streams back together? Interestingly, John Paul I was pope for 33 days and then died. 33 &#8211; the number of years of Jesus&#8217; life. 33 &#8211; the number signifying the culmination and integration of the 32 Paths of Wisdom of the Tree of Life into a coherent whole. The 32 paths of wisdom = the 22 paths of the Tree of Life + the 10 Sefirot. The 22 paths of the Tree of Life = the 22 Arcana of the Tarot. (And of course, we have the 32 degrees of Scottish Freemasonry, with a 33rd degree bestowed on the select few.) Anyway, John Paul II takes up the mantle by assuming the same double name. Deliberate? Of course, but esoteric? Perhaps. Without going to find the references, Pope John Paul II, in his youth, was involved in a theatre troupe working though the anthroposophical mystery plays of Rudolf Steiner. This was just prior to the young Wojtyła being hit by a truck and encountering Christ in a way that caused him to enter the Catholic priesthood. Much could be written on certain aspects of Pope JP II&#8217;s theology that reflect these anthroposophical themes. In any case, there is an early connection to the very stream of esoterica in which Tomberg was steeped. So, years later, we see the aged Pope with a copy of the original German two-volume copy of Tomberg&#8217;s opus. Hmmm. Beyond the notice of most, and only meaningful to those who recognize the sign. Another tangential, yet interesting, clue that a hermetic stream has existed within the exoteric shell of Roman Catholicism is the Seal of the Jesuit Order, and the Order&#8217;s abbreviated (esoteric) motto, &#8220;Magis,&#8221; taken from the official (exoteric) motto, &#8220;Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam.&#8221; Magis &#8230; ahh, the connotations! More! Master. Teacher. Magistrate. Magic. Magis. The seal, unveiled in all its glory, stands naked and revealed by the great Jesuit polymath (and father of Egyptology), Athanasius Kircher, in his work, &#8220;Oedipus Aegyptiacus,&#8221; or &#8220;Son of Egypt.&#8221; You can see an image of what I call the unveiled version herein. There is a veritable esoteric feast contained therein. Draw your own conclusions. These are just a very few thought on how and why Tomberg&#8217;s work would up on John Paul II&#8217;s desk. Hope you have enjoyed.</p>
<p>Regards,<br />
Doug Hein, Ordo Unim</p>
<p>The official Jesuit Seal, and the very intriguing Kircher version!<br />
[See images <a href="http://alpheus.org/html/source_materials/esoteric_history/IHS-Kirchner.htm" rel="nofollow">here</a>]</p>
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		<title>By: Govert</title>
		<link>http://theosophist.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/pope-john-paul-ii-meditating-on-the-tarot/comment-page-3/#comment-449</link>
		<dc:creator>Govert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theosophist.wordpress.com/?p=63#comment-449</guid>
		<description>Dear Sully,

Thank you for that perspective. I can see the logic of the RCC trying to stay relevant in these days by, for example, embracing Darwinism, or, as you indicate, incorporate some New Age elements. 

I do not know how occult the top of the RCC is, nor how evil. Do you have any other sources to back up your claims?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Sully,</p>
<p>Thank you for that perspective. I can see the logic of the RCC trying to stay relevant in these days by, for example, embracing Darwinism, or, as you indicate, incorporate some New Age elements. </p>
<p>I do not know how occult the top of the RCC is, nor how evil. Do you have any other sources to back up your claims?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Sully Sullivan</title>
		<link>http://theosophist.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/pope-john-paul-ii-meditating-on-the-tarot/comment-page-3/#comment-448</link>
		<dc:creator>Sully Sullivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theosophist.wordpress.com/?p=63#comment-448</guid>
		<description>they&#039;re all occultists.  wotija was involved in all kinds of stuff back in poland and even while he was pope.  there are pictures of him in hindu rituals as well--as pope.  his bff mother theresa had her mission in calcutta, which is kali&#039;s city, and not only that, actually took over part of the kali temple in that city for her mission.  most of her &quot;sisters&quot; weren&#039;t catholic at all.

but no, this isn&#039;t in the happy go lucky neo-pagan kind of way.  these people are diabolical.  the church has always been full of occultists at the top.  they aren&#039;t interested in liberating humanity.  quite the opposite.

for at least the last 60 years there has been an active movement in the hierarchy to dismantle the church.  a new religion is coming and jpii and b xvi laid the groundwork for it.  it will be a goddess religion and mary will be the focal point.  many pagans will be tricked into following this new religion, just like 2000 years ago when they became christians.  

but, on the other hand, humans need ritual and civic religion.  it&#039;s part of our nature.  it will always be controlled by the authorities.  christianity was an improvement over the roman cults.  it could be that the goddess religion will also be a slight improvement.  

most people don&#039;t realize that all the early christian martyrs were heretics, because there was no orthodoxy at the time.  it wasn&#039;t until all the other sects were subdued by the empire that the priests of the mystery cults and the emperor constantine, conspired to create a state religion that would replace roman rule.  so unfortunately, that probably means that the new martyrs will be catholics and christians who refuse to accept the goddess.  they are already preparing them for martyrdom in their sermons.  it&#039;s sickening.  

even though it&#039;s a necessary evil, i hate religion.  and i know way too much about it.  if i were a weaker person it would drive me to drink.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>they&#8217;re all occultists.  wotija was involved in all kinds of stuff back in poland and even while he was pope.  there are pictures of him in hindu rituals as well&#8211;as pope.  his bff mother theresa had her mission in calcutta, which is kali&#8217;s city, and not only that, actually took over part of the kali temple in that city for her mission.  most of her &#8220;sisters&#8221; weren&#8217;t catholic at all.</p>
<p>but no, this isn&#8217;t in the happy go lucky neo-pagan kind of way.  these people are diabolical.  the church has always been full of occultists at the top.  they aren&#8217;t interested in liberating humanity.  quite the opposite.</p>
<p>for at least the last 60 years there has been an active movement in the hierarchy to dismantle the church.  a new religion is coming and jpii and b xvi laid the groundwork for it.  it will be a goddess religion and mary will be the focal point.  many pagans will be tricked into following this new religion, just like 2000 years ago when they became christians.  </p>
<p>but, on the other hand, humans need ritual and civic religion.  it&#8217;s part of our nature.  it will always be controlled by the authorities.  christianity was an improvement over the roman cults.  it could be that the goddess religion will also be a slight improvement.  </p>
<p>most people don&#8217;t realize that all the early christian martyrs were heretics, because there was no orthodoxy at the time.  it wasn&#8217;t until all the other sects were subdued by the empire that the priests of the mystery cults and the emperor constantine, conspired to create a state religion that would replace roman rule.  so unfortunately, that probably means that the new martyrs will be catholics and christians who refuse to accept the goddess.  they are already preparing them for martyrdom in their sermons.  it&#8217;s sickening.  </p>
<p>even though it&#8217;s a necessary evil, i hate religion.  and i know way too much about it.  if i were a weaker person it would drive me to drink.</p>
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		<title>By: Govert</title>
		<link>http://theosophist.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/pope-john-paul-ii-meditating-on-the-tarot/comment-page-3/#comment-410</link>
		<dc:creator>Govert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theosophist.wordpress.com/?p=63#comment-410</guid>
		<description>Dear Ed,

Apologies for late response, incorrectly representing your relation to the pictures and for misspelling your last name. 

So, for the record, the sequence of finding the photos was as follows: It was a friend of Alpheus who, after reading my first article on the pope and phenomenology, directed my attention to the pictures on David Carter&#039;s web site dedicated to &quot;Meditations on the Tarot,&quot; where you were mentioned for having made the pictures available, which you, as you explain above, received from a friend of yours, and he might be the one who made the first identification (or also received them from someone else).

Meanwhile I found some precedents of the Catholic church engaging in esoteric matters. I found it in HPB&#039;s Isis Unveiled in which she makes the allegation that the Jesuits created spurious Masonic grades and rituals with the object of bending some parts of Masonry towards a more Christian and theistic nature. Maybe that was their motivation with &#039;promoting&#039; Tomberg&#039;s work. This might be a nice follow up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Ed,</p>
<p>Apologies for late response, incorrectly representing your relation to the pictures and for misspelling your last name. </p>
<p>So, for the record, the sequence of finding the photos was as follows: It was a friend of Alpheus who, after reading my first article on the pope and phenomenology, directed my attention to the pictures on David Carter&#8217;s web site dedicated to &#8220;Meditations on the Tarot,&#8221; where you were mentioned for having made the pictures available, which you, as you explain above, received from a friend of yours, and he might be the one who made the first identification (or also received them from someone else).</p>
<p>Meanwhile I found some precedents of the Catholic church engaging in esoteric matters. I found it in HPB&#8217;s Isis Unveiled in which she makes the allegation that the Jesuits created spurious Masonic grades and rituals with the object of bending some parts of Masonry towards a more Christian and theistic nature. Maybe that was their motivation with &#8216;promoting&#8217; Tomberg&#8217;s work. This might be a nice follow up.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Mahood</title>
		<link>http://theosophist.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/pope-john-paul-ii-meditating-on-the-tarot/comment-page-2/#comment-392</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Mahood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 07:23:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theosophist.wordpress.com/?p=63#comment-392</guid>
		<description>To Natasha and Govert,

FYI: If you lay a book published in America (or the UK) on the table front-cover up, spine facing you, the title on the spine will read from left-to-right and be right-side up. If you lay a book published in Germany (or Austria) on the table front-cover up, spine facing you, the title on the spine will read from right-to-left and be upside-down.

When searching through my bookshelves, I sometimes get whiplash. ;-)

ShLVM,
-Ed-</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Natasha and Govert,</p>
<p>FYI: If you lay a book published in America (or the UK) on the table front-cover up, spine facing you, the title on the spine will read from left-to-right and be right-side up. If you lay a book published in Germany (or Austria) on the table front-cover up, spine facing you, the title on the spine will read from right-to-left and be upside-down.</p>
<p>When searching through my bookshelves, I sometimes get whiplash. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>ShLVM,<br />
-Ed-</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Mahood</title>
		<link>http://theosophist.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/pope-john-paul-ii-meditating-on-the-tarot/comment-page-2/#comment-391</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Mahood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 07:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theosophist.wordpress.com/?p=63#comment-391</guid>
		<description>Greetings,

While normally not one to quibble, two points need clarifying. 

First, I&#039;m the one who is being attributed with first finding the photos, but this is incorrect. I received digital copies of these from a friend. All information that I passed on to those to whom I gave further access to the photos received the same story that I did, so I&#039;m not sure the &quot;jumping to conclusions&quot; comment is completely accurate. :-) 

Second, I agree with PT Barnum, really, and what is said about me isn&#039;t really all that big a deal, but please, spell my name right.

On the other hand, I thank you for sorting out the picture (nice detective work), and showing that, in the end, the original claim is correct: the books in question are in fact on the desk in the picture. I also agree that on the whole, this is not so surprising, given the tone and tenor of the book. Regardless of its bias, it is still a great read.

ShLVM,
-Ed-</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greetings,</p>
<p>While normally not one to quibble, two points need clarifying. </p>
<p>First, I&#8217;m the one who is being attributed with first finding the photos, but this is incorrect. I received digital copies of these from a friend. All information that I passed on to those to whom I gave further access to the photos received the same story that I did, so I&#8217;m not sure the &#8220;jumping to conclusions&#8221; comment is completely accurate. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>Second, I agree with PT Barnum, really, and what is said about me isn&#8217;t really all that big a deal, but please, spell my name right.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I thank you for sorting out the picture (nice detective work), and showing that, in the end, the original claim is correct: the books in question are in fact on the desk in the picture. I also agree that on the whole, this is not so surprising, given the tone and tenor of the book. Regardless of its bias, it is still a great read.</p>
<p>ShLVM,<br />
-Ed-</p>
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		<title>By: Govert</title>
		<link>http://theosophist.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/pope-john-paul-ii-meditating-on-the-tarot/comment-page-2/#comment-269</link>
		<dc:creator>Govert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 19:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theosophist.wordpress.com/?p=63#comment-269</guid>
		<description>Dear Natasha,

I think you&#039;re right, most books have their titles aligned either to the left or centered. 

Please, feel free to share your spiritual experiences as a Catholic Tarot reader and how, based on the above, you&#039;d relate to John Paul II.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Natasha,</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re right, most books have their titles aligned either to the left or centered. </p>
<p>Please, feel free to share your spiritual experiences as a Catholic Tarot reader and how, based on the above, you&#8217;d relate to John Paul II.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Natasha</title>
		<link>http://theosophist.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/pope-john-paul-ii-meditating-on-the-tarot/comment-page-2/#comment-262</link>
		<dc:creator>Natasha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 05:07:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theosophist.wordpress.com/?p=63#comment-262</guid>
		<description>It actually does make sense that the picture is reversed. If you look at the book above the other two, you can notice it more has a right-side margin. That&#039;s very uncommon because normally it&#039;s left-sided. That&#039;s just how most things are. Look at other books. Normally titles begin from left to right or in the center. Very rarely is it more toward the ride side. =]

I probably didn&#039;t make much sense and for that I apologize. It&#039;s 1 in the morning and I&#039;m dead tired.

I&#039;m just a Catholic tarot reader and found this very interesting! =]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It actually does make sense that the picture is reversed. If you look at the book above the other two, you can notice it more has a right-side margin. That&#8217;s very uncommon because normally it&#8217;s left-sided. That&#8217;s just how most things are. Look at other books. Normally titles begin from left to right or in the center. Very rarely is it more toward the ride side. =]</p>
<p>I probably didn&#8217;t make much sense and for that I apologize. It&#8217;s 1 in the morning and I&#8217;m dead tired.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m just a Catholic tarot reader and found this very interesting! =]</p>
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		<title>By: schullerius</title>
		<link>http://theosophist.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/pope-john-paul-ii-meditating-on-the-tarot/comment-page-2/#comment-132</link>
		<dc:creator>schullerius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:10:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theosophist.wordpress.com/?p=63#comment-132</guid>
		<description>Dear Chris,

Yes, my question about the possible ways this Pope-Tarot conjunction could be interpreted says indeed a lot about myself, as the esoteric parapolitical hermeneutics of suspicion is part and parcel of my overarching Theosophical paradigm. But, As Joscelyn Godwin notes, it might be inherent to occultism itself and not just be me:

&quot;Conspiracy theory is anathema to the historian, but indispensable to the history of occultism. It is of the very essence of the occult world view that earthly events are not the result of material cause and effect alone, but that they are influenced by other levels of being. The occultist automatically seeks for a higher cause, both in the general happenings that change the course of world history, and in small happenings...&quot;

If you combine this with Blavatsky&#039;s exposure of the Jesuits in &quot;Isis Unveiled,&quot; you might get a sense that the art and science of esoteric parapolitical investigations will yield interesting, even actionable results. My take on this Pope-Tarot connection was merely a playful exercise. 

For the serious stuff I invite you to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.alpheus.org/html/contentindices/parapolitics_index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;parapolitical section&lt;/a&gt; on Alpheus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Chris,</p>
<p>Yes, my question about the possible ways this Pope-Tarot conjunction could be interpreted says indeed a lot about myself, as the esoteric parapolitical hermeneutics of suspicion is part and parcel of my overarching Theosophical paradigm. But, As Joscelyn Godwin notes, it might be inherent to occultism itself and not just be me:</p>
<p>&#8220;Conspiracy theory is anathema to the historian, but indispensable to the history of occultism. It is of the very essence of the occult world view that earthly events are not the result of material cause and effect alone, but that they are influenced by other levels of being. The occultist automatically seeks for a higher cause, both in the general happenings that change the course of world history, and in small happenings&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>If you combine this with Blavatsky&#8217;s exposure of the Jesuits in &#8220;Isis Unveiled,&#8221; you might get a sense that the art and science of esoteric parapolitical investigations will yield interesting, even actionable results. My take on this Pope-Tarot connection was merely a playful exercise. </p>
<p>For the serious stuff I invite you to the <a href="http://www.alpheus.org/html/contentindices/parapolitics_index.html" rel="nofollow">parapolitical section</a> on Alpheus.</p>
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		<title>By: schullerius</title>
		<link>http://theosophist.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/pope-john-paul-ii-meditating-on-the-tarot/comment-page-1/#comment-131</link>
		<dc:creator>schullerius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:45:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theosophist.wordpress.com/?p=63#comment-131</guid>
		<description>Dear Katinka,

I know that Christians have shown interest in alternative spiritualities, but, to my mind, the conjunction of the Pope with the Tarot is still quite far-fetched, like Mao and the Bible or Bush and &quot;Being and Time,&quot; or Algeo in an official picture in the Chicago Tribune with a book by Elizabeth Clare Prophet on his desk. What kind of messages would those be? All leaders, by nature, are careful managers of the image they project. If they can prevent it, they will not be seen to be associated with something that can cause them trouble, unless there is an ulterior motive and plausible deniability. If you look again at the photograph it just looks like a too nicely arranged set-up. Makes me wonder whose statue it is next to his desk. Loyola? Bruno?

Conspiranoidly yours</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Katinka,</p>
<p>I know that Christians have shown interest in alternative spiritualities, but, to my mind, the conjunction of the Pope with the Tarot is still quite far-fetched, like Mao and the Bible or Bush and &#8220;Being and Time,&#8221; or Algeo in an official picture in the Chicago Tribune with a book by Elizabeth Clare Prophet on his desk. What kind of messages would those be? All leaders, by nature, are careful managers of the image they project. If they can prevent it, they will not be seen to be associated with something that can cause them trouble, unless there is an ulterior motive and plausible deniability. If you look again at the photograph it just looks like a too nicely arranged set-up. Makes me wonder whose statue it is next to his desk. Loyola? Bruno?</p>
<p>Conspiranoidly yours</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: schullerius</title>
		<link>http://theosophist.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/pope-john-paul-ii-meditating-on-the-tarot/comment-page-1/#comment-127</link>
		<dc:creator>schullerius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 20:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theosophist.wordpress.com/?p=63#comment-127</guid>
		<description>Dear Bill V,

Thanks for your observations based on your direct experience in reading the Tomberg book. Quite interesting, especially the idea that in higher Catholic circles there is something of a hidden practice of experiencing the divine directly. 

The argument that Tomberg is really deep down a Catholic--and not essentially an esotericist in a Catholic wrapping--might be strengthened by the idea that he apparently appropriated some of the meditation techniques of Ignatius Loyola. Here the possibly sinister Jesuit twist might get exposed, for Loyola and the Jesuits are truly the &#039;betes noirs&#039; of Blavatsky, Steiner and Prophet with the Anthroposophists the most loud in denouncing Tomberg for being possibly a secret disciple of the Jesuits.  This information I found in the recently published Dictionary of Gnosis &amp; Western Esotericism (DGWE) in an entry written by the Antoine Faivre, one of its editors and obvious admirer of Tomberg. 

As an aside, and to thicken the plot, Faivre himself is a French Catholic connected with CESNUR, a think tank or research institute headquartered in Italy and led by a group of very knowledgeable fundamentalist Catholics. The institute is well regarded internationally and specializes in the study of New Religious Movements and has some very good papers on its site (http://www.cesnur.org/). It was founded and is still headed by Massimo Introvigne, who also contributed to the DGWE.  At the same time it is exposed as being run as an adjunct of the Alleanza Cattolica, a very militant, reactionary, fundamentalist Catholic organization by the Kelebek web site (http://www.kelebekler.com/index.html). Their critical page on CESNUR is headed by a quote from Introvigne: &quot;This is why militants of Alleanza Cattolica, together with others, founded and still inspire CESNUR, the Center for the Study of New Religions.&quot; According to Kelebek, Introvigne tried to shut down the Kelebek site, but fortunately failed. 

So, again, the question is: What&#039;s going on here? I have no problem with researchers having their own metaphysical convictions, but I like that they will come more explicitly into the open so we, consumers of their research, can gage where they are coming from. Therefore, when any of them try to intimidate those who inform the public about semi-secret allegiances will only attract more suspicion and approbrium. What high level spiritual-intellectual games are being played here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Bill V,</p>
<p>Thanks for your observations based on your direct experience in reading the Tomberg book. Quite interesting, especially the idea that in higher Catholic circles there is something of a hidden practice of experiencing the divine directly. </p>
<p>The argument that Tomberg is really deep down a Catholic&#8211;and not essentially an esotericist in a Catholic wrapping&#8211;might be strengthened by the idea that he apparently appropriated some of the meditation techniques of Ignatius Loyola. Here the possibly sinister Jesuit twist might get exposed, for Loyola and the Jesuits are truly the &#8216;betes noirs&#8217; of Blavatsky, Steiner and Prophet with the Anthroposophists the most loud in denouncing Tomberg for being possibly a secret disciple of the Jesuits.  This information I found in the recently published Dictionary of Gnosis &amp; Western Esotericism (DGWE) in an entry written by the Antoine Faivre, one of its editors and obvious admirer of Tomberg. </p>
<p>As an aside, and to thicken the plot, Faivre himself is a French Catholic connected with CESNUR, a think tank or research institute headquartered in Italy and led by a group of very knowledgeable fundamentalist Catholics. The institute is well regarded internationally and specializes in the study of New Religious Movements and has some very good papers on its site (<a href="http://www.cesnur.org/)" rel="nofollow">http://www.cesnur.org/)</a>. It was founded and is still headed by Massimo Introvigne, who also contributed to the DGWE.  At the same time it is exposed as being run as an adjunct of the Alleanza Cattolica, a very militant, reactionary, fundamentalist Catholic organization by the Kelebek web site (<a href="http://www.kelebekler.com/index.html)" rel="nofollow">http://www.kelebekler.com/index.html)</a>. Their critical page on CESNUR is headed by a quote from Introvigne: &#8220;This is why militants of Alleanza Cattolica, together with others, founded and still inspire CESNUR, the Center for the Study of New Religions.&#8221; According to Kelebek, Introvigne tried to shut down the Kelebek site, but fortunately failed. </p>
<p>So, again, the question is: What&#8217;s going on here? I have no problem with researchers having their own metaphysical convictions, but I like that they will come more explicitly into the open so we, consumers of their research, can gage where they are coming from. Therefore, when any of them try to intimidate those who inform the public about semi-secret allegiances will only attract more suspicion and approbrium. What high level spiritual-intellectual games are being played here?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://theosophist.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/pope-john-paul-ii-meditating-on-the-tarot/comment-page-1/#comment-125</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 19:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theosophist.wordpress.com/?p=63#comment-125</guid>
		<description>I agree with Bill&#039;s comments.  I began this book last year and after one chapter decided I wanted to wait until I had a significant chunk of time to focus on it entirely.  Its depth and comprehensiveness are simply astounding.  As Bill confirms, it is firmly Catholic.  Rather than causing skepticism, however, this led me to a greater appreciation of the true depth of Catholicism.

This work doesn&#039;t seem to be forcing esotericism into a christian box.  It is revealing the esoteric heart of an exoteric body.  In that sense, it is probably one of the most profoundly theosophical books ever written.

In bears reminding that there is good reason for the divergence of esoteric and exoteric streams in religion.  Religion primarily serves a social function, and anything negative associated with it is likely the shadow of something necessary (abuse of power is the shadow of the hierarchies that bring order, etc.).  Esoteric theories and practices, until a point of critical mass of receptive and integrative capacity, would only disrupt such functions.

Now, whether those who support such esotericsm today are &#039;Hermeticist moles in the Vatican spreading esotericism amongst thinking Catholics, part of an agenda to subsume Hermeticism under Catholicism with possibly a sinister Jesuitical twist, ecumenical syncretists, or part of a Mahatmic agenda to reform Catholicism along Occult lines&#039; are questions that will reveal more about the questioner than the sources.

For me the question is what are the transformative possibilities offered by an engagement with a close study of &#039;Meditations on the Tarot&#039;, and what are the similarities/differences between its teachings and those of classical theosophy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Bill&#8217;s comments.  I began this book last year and after one chapter decided I wanted to wait until I had a significant chunk of time to focus on it entirely.  Its depth and comprehensiveness are simply astounding.  As Bill confirms, it is firmly Catholic.  Rather than causing skepticism, however, this led me to a greater appreciation of the true depth of Catholicism.</p>
<p>This work doesn&#8217;t seem to be forcing esotericism into a christian box.  It is revealing the esoteric heart of an exoteric body.  In that sense, it is probably one of the most profoundly theosophical books ever written.</p>
<p>In bears reminding that there is good reason for the divergence of esoteric and exoteric streams in religion.  Religion primarily serves a social function, and anything negative associated with it is likely the shadow of something necessary (abuse of power is the shadow of the hierarchies that bring order, etc.).  Esoteric theories and practices, until a point of critical mass of receptive and integrative capacity, would only disrupt such functions.</p>
<p>Now, whether those who support such esotericsm today are &#8216;Hermeticist moles in the Vatican spreading esotericism amongst thinking Catholics, part of an agenda to subsume Hermeticism under Catholicism with possibly a sinister Jesuitical twist, ecumenical syncretists, or part of a Mahatmic agenda to reform Catholicism along Occult lines&#8217; are questions that will reveal more about the questioner than the sources.</p>
<p>For me the question is what are the transformative possibilities offered by an engagement with a close study of &#8216;Meditations on the Tarot&#8217;, and what are the similarities/differences between its teachings and those of classical theosophy?</p>
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		<title>By: Bill V</title>
		<link>http://theosophist.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/pope-john-paul-ii-meditating-on-the-tarot/comment-page-1/#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill V</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:18:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theosophist.wordpress.com/?p=63#comment-122</guid>
		<description>I am reading &quot;Meditations on the Tarot&quot; and have found it to be full of Christian (and specifically Catholic) references. The whole book really seems to take the idea of esoterism and wrap it in a Christian context.  In this respect it is somewhat consistent with the idea that all spiritual power comes from God, and in fact if esoteric practices do not begin and end with the goal of becoming closer to God, according to this book they are at best useless and at worst evil. 

I would speculate that any Christian who wishes to see beyond the exoteric Christian doctrine (which can tend to ring hollow for those who start asking serious questions about inconsistencies and literal impossibilities within the bible text) will end up on a search that leads them to the concepts in this book. It is no surprise to me that higher level members of the Catholic faith are on such a spiritual path. If you dedicate your life&#039;s work to spiritual truth, eventually you are going to look deeper into the mysteries than your typical Sunday sermon or typical Bible study. 

My opinion of Catholicism has always been one of strange fascination - the use of ritual and costume and Latin all strike me as being very esoteric in nature. The idea here is that the Catholic priests and the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic faith are schooled and practiced in esoteric ways that are simply accepted and commonplace within the church - but are only allowed within the context of a dedicated life in service to Christ. There is no denying that some of the ritual performed in a Catholic Mass is, when examined more deeply than from just a cursory participation as a church member) somewhat Gnostic in it&#039;s origin. There are many Pagan elements that have been incorporated into it. 

This book seems to take that line of thinking and goes very deeply into the underlying symbolism, using the Tarot as a guide. But, be assured that this book&#039;s design is to tie it all back squarely to Catholicism and Christianity. Whether it is totally successful in doing so, I am not convinced. Early in Christian history (around 4th century A.D.) there was a massive attempt to sever any connection to esoteric or Gnostic thought from Roman Catholicism, even as many of their symbols and theology stemmed directly from these roots.  However, those in high positions within the faith understood the underlying esoteric concepts were the true connection to union with God, a direct experience of the divine.  As a result, there has been two faces of Catholicism - one exoteric, and one esoteric. The shell of the esoteric still exists in Catholic ritual, but most are not at all aware of it&#039;s origins. 

The public face of Catholicism has always condemned any line of spiritual thinking which allowed for a direct connection with the divine. This protected the church&#039;s position as the only connection between God and man. However, within the depths of the church, there has always been the hidden knowledge of direct experience of the divine which has been carefully hidden from the uninitiated.  I also believe that this is why Catholicism condemns Freemasonry, because within the walls of the Freemason&#039;s temple you can discover this knowledge and divine experience without the intermediary of the Church.  To do so undermines the Church&#039;s power, therefore it is condemned, even to this day. 

This book takes that esoteric knowledge and lays it squarely on the template of Catholicism again. However, it is unlikely that the Church would publicly condone such knowledge to the faith at large, for reasons mentioned above. But, it does not surprise me in the least that the book has a place on the Pope&#039;s desk, or that a Bishop high up in the faith would recommend such a book to his peers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am reading &#8220;Meditations on the Tarot&#8221; and have found it to be full of Christian (and specifically Catholic) references. The whole book really seems to take the idea of esoterism and wrap it in a Christian context.  In this respect it is somewhat consistent with the idea that all spiritual power comes from God, and in fact if esoteric practices do not begin and end with the goal of becoming closer to God, according to this book they are at best useless and at worst evil. </p>
<p>I would speculate that any Christian who wishes to see beyond the exoteric Christian doctrine (which can tend to ring hollow for those who start asking serious questions about inconsistencies and literal impossibilities within the bible text) will end up on a search that leads them to the concepts in this book. It is no surprise to me that higher level members of the Catholic faith are on such a spiritual path. If you dedicate your life&#8217;s work to spiritual truth, eventually you are going to look deeper into the mysteries than your typical Sunday sermon or typical Bible study. </p>
<p>My opinion of Catholicism has always been one of strange fascination &#8211; the use of ritual and costume and Latin all strike me as being very esoteric in nature. The idea here is that the Catholic priests and the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic faith are schooled and practiced in esoteric ways that are simply accepted and commonplace within the church &#8211; but are only allowed within the context of a dedicated life in service to Christ. There is no denying that some of the ritual performed in a Catholic Mass is, when examined more deeply than from just a cursory participation as a church member) somewhat Gnostic in it&#8217;s origin. There are many Pagan elements that have been incorporated into it. </p>
<p>This book seems to take that line of thinking and goes very deeply into the underlying symbolism, using the Tarot as a guide. But, be assured that this book&#8217;s design is to tie it all back squarely to Catholicism and Christianity. Whether it is totally successful in doing so, I am not convinced. Early in Christian history (around 4th century A.D.) there was a massive attempt to sever any connection to esoteric or Gnostic thought from Roman Catholicism, even as many of their symbols and theology stemmed directly from these roots.  However, those in high positions within the faith understood the underlying esoteric concepts were the true connection to union with God, a direct experience of the divine.  As a result, there has been two faces of Catholicism &#8211; one exoteric, and one esoteric. The shell of the esoteric still exists in Catholic ritual, but most are not at all aware of it&#8217;s origins. </p>
<p>The public face of Catholicism has always condemned any line of spiritual thinking which allowed for a direct connection with the divine. This protected the church&#8217;s position as the only connection between God and man. However, within the depths of the church, there has always been the hidden knowledge of direct experience of the divine which has been carefully hidden from the uninitiated.  I also believe that this is why Catholicism condemns Freemasonry, because within the walls of the Freemason&#8217;s temple you can discover this knowledge and divine experience without the intermediary of the Church.  To do so undermines the Church&#8217;s power, therefore it is condemned, even to this day. </p>
<p>This book takes that esoteric knowledge and lays it squarely on the template of Catholicism again. However, it is unlikely that the Church would publicly condone such knowledge to the faith at large, for reasons mentioned above. But, it does not surprise me in the least that the book has a place on the Pope&#8217;s desk, or that a Bishop high up in the faith would recommend such a book to his peers.</p>
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		<title>By: katinkaspiritual</title>
		<link>http://theosophist.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/pope-john-paul-ii-meditating-on-the-tarot/comment-page-1/#comment-121</link>
		<dc:creator>katinkaspiritual</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theosophist.wordpress.com/?p=63#comment-121</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know - it&#039;s not exactly revolutionary to have a 1970&#039;s book in which the Roman Catholic Church develops an alternative version of Roman Catholicism. I mean - it was a sign of the times. That was also the time, if I&#039;m not mistaken, that the Latin Mass was changed into a mass in the local language. It was also the time that Catholic Nuns and Monks investigated things like Zen Meditation. There&#039;s a theosophically published book  &#039;Zen for Christians&#039; (or some such title) which is the result of similar explorations. 

Also one of my personal favorite spiritual teachers, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.squidoo.com/anthony-de-mello&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Anthony de Mello&lt;/a&gt;, was an Indian Jesuit priest who used Eastern spirituality in his version of Roman Catholicism. 

Ratzinger&#039;s theosophical interests did not stop the future pope from condemning de Mello&#039;s work as non-catholic: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19980624_demello_en.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;CONCERNING THE WRITINGS OF
FATHER ANTHONY DE MELLO, SJ&lt;/a&gt;

I don&#039;t know if you&#039;ve noticed this or not, Govert, but this pope isn&#039;t exactly the most liberal pope you can imagine. Sure, part of it&#039;s just plain ignorance of how things work outside academic study, but partly it really does look like this is a devoted, classic Catholic and he may have those books on his desk - but does he read them to be able to defend against them, or because he&#039;s inspired by them?

I mean - if we found an Alice Bailey book on John Algeo&#039;s desk - we wouldn&#039;t assume he actually felt inspired by them would we? I&#039;d prefer to judge by his lectures and articles, not by the content of his library.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know &#8211; it&#8217;s not exactly revolutionary to have a 1970&#8217;s book in which the Roman Catholic Church develops an alternative version of Roman Catholicism. I mean &#8211; it was a sign of the times. That was also the time, if I&#8217;m not mistaken, that the Latin Mass was changed into a mass in the local language. It was also the time that Catholic Nuns and Monks investigated things like Zen Meditation. There&#8217;s a theosophically published book  &#8216;Zen for Christians&#8217; (or some such title) which is the result of similar explorations. </p>
<p>Also one of my personal favorite spiritual teachers, <a href="http://www.squidoo.com/anthony-de-mello" rel="nofollow">Anthony de Mello</a>, was an Indian Jesuit priest who used Eastern spirituality in his version of Roman Catholicism. </p>
<p>Ratzinger&#8217;s theosophical interests did not stop the future pope from condemning de Mello&#8217;s work as non-catholic: <a href="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19980624_demello_en.html" rel="nofollow">CONCERNING THE WRITINGS OF<br />
FATHER ANTHONY DE MELLO, SJ</a></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ve noticed this or not, Govert, but this pope isn&#8217;t exactly the most liberal pope you can imagine. Sure, part of it&#8217;s just plain ignorance of how things work outside academic study, but partly it really does look like this is a devoted, classic Catholic and he may have those books on his desk &#8211; but does he read them to be able to defend against them, or because he&#8217;s inspired by them?</p>
<p>I mean &#8211; if we found an Alice Bailey book on John Algeo&#8217;s desk &#8211; we wouldn&#8217;t assume he actually felt inspired by them would we? I&#8217;d prefer to judge by his lectures and articles, not by the content of his library.</p>
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