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	<title>Comments on: Youth and wisdom</title>
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	<link>http://theosophist.wordpress.com/2008/03/07/youth-and-wisdom/</link>
	<description>voices from the path</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 13:36:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Religion versus Spirituality part 2: How to reconcile commitment and scepticism&#8230; &#171; Theosophist</title>
		<link>http://theosophist.wordpress.com/2008/03/07/youth-and-wisdom/#comment-17</link>
		<dc:creator>Religion versus Spirituality part 2: How to reconcile commitment and scepticism&#8230; &#171; Theosophist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theosophist.wordpress.com/?p=22#comment-17</guid>
		<description>[...] is somewhere between the two. Our lodges are meant as places for community building, but as Chris mentioned, sometimes they aren&#8217;t so open to outsiders. In fact, community usually implies a firm [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is somewhere between the two. Our lodges are meant as places for community building, but as Chris mentioned, sometimes they aren&#8217;t so open to outsiders. In fact, community usually implies a firm [...]</p>
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		<title>By: katinkaspiritual</title>
		<link>http://theosophist.wordpress.com/2008/03/07/youth-and-wisdom/#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>katinkaspiritual</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:01:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theosophist.wordpress.com/?p=22#comment-13</guid>
		<description>I've actually never felt alienated in the TS as a whole. On the contrary. I found a welcoming lodge which protected me from my enthusiasm by not agreeing to take me on as a secretary the day I joined the lodge. Some people actually put it that way - we don't give you more responsibility to protect you from yourself. And you know, they were probably right to do that (I'm not sure they were right about not letting me into the ES - but I already shared that above). Of course I did end up being secretary and later chair in that lodge a few years later. I also served coffee at the International Theosophical Centre at Naarden a lot. Worked in the woods and gardens there and helped out with our Dutch magazine a bit. 

But some people are weird. I sold books at one meeting a few years ago and a lady came up to me and said: what you're doing isn't going unnoticed. To me that just meant she had not seen all the stuff I'd been doing for the TS before that. Maybe I was just being prickly. 

I met Henk Spierenburg through the TS as well. But he was actually lurking on some of the online internet fora where I was making myself heard quite loudly back then (yes: he lurked on theos-l - I think I was the only one who knew). And I think more than 60% of the books in my library were given by him. No way I could have afforded all those books.

I love theosophists. And I get along well with old people, which may be why I never felt too much out of place in the TS. Also - I never would have believed I'd say this - you seem a bit shyer than I am. I guess I'm an extroverted introvert or something? 

I always love theosophical meetings as well. I guess the place just suits me. But the English Summer School last year was especially great. Partly it was Michael Gomes's exuberance that radiated through the whole school. That year the English weren't hard to reach at all, and I do attribute that to Michael. Partly it was the combination of workshops and lectures and a great variety of speakers. &lt;a href="http://lucifer7.katinkahesselink.net/i/2007/9.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Here's my full review&lt;/a&gt;. The contrast with the American Summer School I attended the year before that - with just three or for speakers for a whole week - couldn't have been greater.

In general I feel theosophists are very wise and often smart people. This is true not just for the lecturers, but for the person sitting next to you in the audience as well. We've got to find ways to tap into that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve actually never felt alienated in the TS as a whole. On the contrary. I found a welcoming lodge which protected me from my enthusiasm by not agreeing to take me on as a secretary the day I joined the lodge. Some people actually put it that way - we don&#8217;t give you more responsibility to protect you from yourself. And you know, they were probably right to do that (I&#8217;m not sure they were right about not letting me into the ES - but I already shared that above). Of course I did end up being secretary and later chair in that lodge a few years later. I also served coffee at the International Theosophical Centre at Naarden a lot. Worked in the woods and gardens there and helped out with our Dutch magazine a bit. </p>
<p>But some people are weird. I sold books at one meeting a few years ago and a lady came up to me and said: what you&#8217;re doing isn&#8217;t going unnoticed. To me that just meant she had not seen all the stuff I&#8217;d been doing for the TS before that. Maybe I was just being prickly. </p>
<p>I met Henk Spierenburg through the TS as well. But he was actually lurking on some of the online internet fora where I was making myself heard quite loudly back then (yes: he lurked on theos-l - I think I was the only one who knew). And I think more than 60% of the books in my library were given by him. No way I could have afforded all those books.</p>
<p>I love theosophists. And I get along well with old people, which may be why I never felt too much out of place in the TS. Also - I never would have believed I&#8217;d say this - you seem a bit shyer than I am. I guess I&#8217;m an extroverted introvert or something? </p>
<p>I always love theosophical meetings as well. I guess the place just suits me. But the English Summer School last year was especially great. Partly it was Michael Gomes&#8217;s exuberance that radiated through the whole school. That year the English weren&#8217;t hard to reach at all, and I do attribute that to Michael. Partly it was the combination of workshops and lectures and a great variety of speakers. <a href="http://lucifer7.katinkahesselink.net/i/2007/9.html" rel="nofollow">Here&#8217;s my full review</a>. The contrast with the American Summer School I attended the year before that - with just three or for speakers for a whole week - couldn&#8217;t have been greater.</p>
<p>In general I feel theosophists are very wise and often smart people. This is true not just for the lecturers, but for the person sitting next to you in the audience as well. We&#8217;ve got to find ways to tap into that.</p>
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		<title>By: theosophist</title>
		<link>http://theosophist.wordpress.com/2008/03/07/youth-and-wisdom/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>theosophist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 16:34:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theosophist.wordpress.com/?p=22#comment-7</guid>
		<description>This is a very interesting point Katinka.

There does seem to be a tension within the TSA.  On the one hand, they are intensely, and rightfully, concerned about the visible lack of involved young people and all the implications this has for the future of the organization.  On the other, the actual attitude towards young people tends to be wariness and skepticism.  This extends to new ideas as well.  I don't think this is a conscious decision, just a natural  aversion.

When I first start attending classes at Olcott (TSA headquarters in Wheaton, IL, USA), I was scared, shy and alone.  Each night I would desperately hope someone would talk to me, that I could meet someone.  It took the formation of a separate group just for young people for that to happen.  Later, when I started working at Olcott and asked to move in and become resident staff, I was again treated with skepticism.  Again, I think it just fear.  The TS tends to draw a lot of introverts, and the age and structure of the organization creates a tendency towards a preservational, protectionist frame of mind rather than an open and innovative one.  One of the reasons I wanted to stop the Young Theosophists Movement after a few years is because I didn't want all young theosophists seen as a separate group, I wanted them integrated into the larger body.

Over the years I earned a place at the table, and I believe the current atmosphere is more open than ever before, but I think the problem is deeply embedded.

And yes, the old wise teacher image is part of it.  What I don't like about that image, and our traditional lecture formats are a perfect example of this, is the passivity it connotes.  The wise old teacher stands up in front and tells a passively receptive audience 'how it is'.  The audience nods and smiles, takes their notes, and hopefully reflects on what was said.  I want to deconstruct that whole dynamic.

Which is not to say that 'inspirational youth' trope should replace the sage, just that, as you said, there should be concerted recognition of the need for a partnership, for mentoring, for a balance of innocence and experience, wisdom and energy.

Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a very interesting point Katinka.</p>
<p>There does seem to be a tension within the TSA.  On the one hand, they are intensely, and rightfully, concerned about the visible lack of involved young people and all the implications this has for the future of the organization.  On the other, the actual attitude towards young people tends to be wariness and skepticism.  This extends to new ideas as well.  I don&#8217;t think this is a conscious decision, just a natural  aversion.</p>
<p>When I first start attending classes at Olcott (TSA headquarters in Wheaton, IL, USA), I was scared, shy and alone.  Each night I would desperately hope someone would talk to me, that I could meet someone.  It took the formation of a separate group just for young people for that to happen.  Later, when I started working at Olcott and asked to move in and become resident staff, I was again treated with skepticism.  Again, I think it just fear.  The TS tends to draw a lot of introverts, and the age and structure of the organization creates a tendency towards a preservational, protectionist frame of mind rather than an open and innovative one.  One of the reasons I wanted to stop the Young Theosophists Movement after a few years is because I didn&#8217;t want all young theosophists seen as a separate group, I wanted them integrated into the larger body.</p>
<p>Over the years I earned a place at the table, and I believe the current atmosphere is more open than ever before, but I think the problem is deeply embedded.</p>
<p>And yes, the old wise teacher image is part of it.  What I don&#8217;t like about that image, and our traditional lecture formats are a perfect example of this, is the passivity it connotes.  The wise old teacher stands up in front and tells a passively receptive audience &#8216;how it is&#8217;.  The audience nods and smiles, takes their notes, and hopefully reflects on what was said.  I want to deconstruct that whole dynamic.</p>
<p>Which is not to say that &#8216;inspirational youth&#8217; trope should replace the sage, just that, as you said, there should be concerted recognition of the need for a partnership, for mentoring, for a balance of innocence and experience, wisdom and energy.</p>
<p>Chris</p>
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